Beau Peep Notice Board
Beau Peep Notice Board => Outpourings => Topic started by: Malc on January 02, 2010, 01:11:08 AM
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I drew one cartoon, thinking that the idea of people arriving at the Pearly Gates only to meet a Market Researcher was funny. I then got cold feet about it and changed the Market Research lady gag into something else.
Do either of these work, really? When we get cold feet on an idea should we immediately junk it and never retrieve it out of the bin on principle?
(http://malcmcgookin.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/pg-market-research1.gif)
(http://malcmcgookin.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/pg-market-research-22.gif)
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I like them both.
Just a small change in the art gives two seperate gags.
It's the expressions matching the context that make the difference.
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I like them both, but I like the second one better.
To me, personally, a market researcher is more likely to be knocking at the door (gates, whatever) and hassling the occupants, rather than preying on people just arriving. So the second one makes more sense to me.
But both are good. I don't know why you would have rejected the first one. But then, I'm not a professional cartoonist, so what do I know?
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I think you should make the fellow with the wings your xmas avatar - or maybe Valentine's
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#1.EVERY Sunday. Got it?
#2. "Trust me to try and take it with me....in coins.
Certainly not better, but I enjoy trying.
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Those are good. I might do the professional thing and steal them, giving you no credit at all.
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#2 See! If we'd had this on our flight.
#2 Typical! No line ups when we're not in a hurry to get there.
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I hate to besmirch others copyright by posting this, but can you believe Wilbur's already done one?
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/wda0131l.jpg)
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So I'll go with the second image.
Calvin, that 'See! If we'd had this on our flight..' fits better with the grumpy character. It also has a very macabre ring to it which will limit its sales but I like it. Can I nick it and split any money with you 50-50?
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I think I was influenced by the recent headlines from the U.S
Money? .
Any idea how flattering the notion of considering using it is to a non-professional? Payment enough.
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So I'll go with the second image.
Calvin, that 'See! If we'd had this on our flight..' fits better with the grumpy character. It also has a very macabre ring to it which will limit its sales but I like it. Can I nick it and split any money with you 50-50?
And you wouldn't need the lady with the clip-board.
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I think I was influenced by the recent headlines from the U.S
Money? .
Any idea how flattering the notion of considering using it is to a non-professional? Payment enough.
Take the money, Calvin!
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I liked both gags, with the first one my marginal favourite---it's a pity Wilbur beat you to the punch(line). Malc, I have to say that I prefer your caption (sorry, Calvin!) for the second gag. It's more simple and the joke is really in the image. Not for the first time, I'm probably guilty of overthinking these things but it really is IMPOSSIBLE to get on a flight these days without going through a scanner---even before the events of last week. And yes, I realise I'm happily accepting angels, pearly gates etc. but there has to be a basis of reality to make the absurd work.
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I think I prefer Malc's original caption too, take the caption away and that's what his expression is saying.
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I think you should make the fellow with the wings your xmas avatar - or maybe Valentine's
Aww, what? Christmas avatars I can just about cope with. You're not going to make us do special avatars for that travesty too, are you?
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Malc: Did this headline worry you after your so recent consideration of the plane security joke? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/6924522/Somali-axeman-who-tried-to-murder-Danish-cartoonist-linked-to-al-Qaeda.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/6924522/Somali-axeman-who-tried-to-murder-Danish-cartoonist-linked-to-al-Qaeda.html)
Jack - you might not have noticed but I sure did - Malc didn't bother to dress up for xmas so it is the least he can do to dress up for Valentine's.
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No, I'm not bothered about terrorist hit men coming for me. I think on the whole, Muslims are pretty tolerant of dumb cartoonists. They don't like images of their prophet Mohammed used in any way, and political cartoonists should be politically and socially aware of everything, not least the religious ramifications of stuff they're drawing.
This Danish idiot not only used an image of Mohammed, he did so without needing to, as a cartoon of any Muslim with a bomb-shaped turban would have sufficed.
I was amazed that the cartoonist in the news report ran to the safety of his specially-constructed 'panic room' to buzz the police, leaving his 5 year-old granddaughter outside!! "I knew he wouldn't harm her" he said! What a noob.
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I remember discussing the Danish/Muslim cartoons on another site when it hit the news and my view hasn't changed in the four years or so since then. The cartoons were a deliberate attempt to offend, without having anything to say. Of course the death threats and other extreme reactions were, and still are, horrifying but the motive behind the original publication was questionable, to say the least.
Malc, like you, I raised an eyebrow or two at the reaction of the cartoonist when he abandoned his granddaughter and fled to his "safe room". I may not be the bravest person around but I guarantee that, in similar circumstances, I would have made sure that my loved ones would have been in that safe room long before I got there. I guess that the supposed "bravery" in publishing these cartoons didn't extend to his personal life. That may sound harsh but, for the life of me, I cannot fathom leaving a five year-old at the mercy of a terrorist. To say that "he knew he wouldn't harm her" is astonishing.
I'm not sure if I've mentioned this on here before, but Beau Peep was named on a site that listed things that were offensive to the Muslim faith. It was all to do with The Nomad's headgear which was, apparently, incorrect and insulting. The fact that he is, well, a nomad of no known faith didn't come into it. So let's just say I'm aware of these delicate times. I am absolutely in favour of free speech---of course---but I still feel those those Danish cartoons were conceived with the sole purpose of offending.
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And four years ago I was more politically correct too – now I don’t have any respect for intolerant groups of religious nutcases of any stripe - I won't pander particularly to Muslim nutcases - unless of course I was a cartoonist with a known address ;D
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Diane, I really don't think this is about political correctness. When you know you're about to do something that is going to offend, and you've nothing to say OTHER than offending, then it's not particularly clever. Living in Scotland, I am more than aware of the Protestant and Catholic nutcases who live here. I know seemingly intelligent people who, depending on their "religion", will not wear green or blue clothes. I know a doctor who played in the same football team as me as a teenager. He was a Protestant and the team concerned wore a green strip---he wore a tee-shirt under it so that the green "wouldn't touch his skin". There is nothing you can do to reason with people like this. Like you, I loathe religious extremism of any kind but commissioning cartoons which set out to deliberately offend a particular faith---without making any particular point---is both facile and nasty. As far as I can gather, and I may be wrong about this, the Danish cartoonists were asked to come up with a cartoon about Mohammed. Not the extremists, not the terrorists, just Mohammed. I'm not sure that's worthy.
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Roger, I think it was even worse than that. I don't think the sole purpose was to offend. It was to prove that nothing was above freedom of speech, and the method they chose to demonstrate it was to arbitrarily offend an entire faith to prove their point. In my eyes, all they succeeded in proving was how arrogant, stupid and utterly insensitive these individuals can be. The cartoonists were bad enough - the publishers were even worse. Freedom of Speech is not Freedom to Offend, and although many of the consequences that followed were totally unacceptable, including this latest incident, the offence was indeed calculated, and the results should have been predictable, albeit perhaps not on the worldwide scale that ensued.
This latest incident is shocking on many levels, and yes, the panic room abandonment of wife and grandchild was part of that for me also, and did the offensive cartoonist no favours. I read that he has managed to turn his fear into anger. Perhaps if he'd given the anger of the millions he offended four years ago a second thought, he'd have no need of a panic room now. Perhaps if he'd turned his fear into sorrow, and apologised for his arrogant mistake, he'd at least get a little more sympathy for his plight.
Nutcases of any origin or religious persuasion who would threaten the lives of others deserve complete condemnation, and I do so without exception. The Muslim faith has had to deal with enough without anyone tarring them all with the same brush as the violent retribution-seekers. I am very thankful that the vast majority of Muslims don't similarly tar all cartoonists by the actions of those Danish 'brethren' who completely lost the plot in 2005.
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A few years ago I had similar views to you guys, mine have changed.
Muslims need to be poked often with a silly stick until they start laughing, table Sharia Law and drag themselves into the 21 century as far as gay and women’s issues are concerned.
If Christianity had not also had the piss taken out of it – the courage to escape the wide enslaving grasp of the Catholic Church may never have been found. Humour is the universal equaliser of issues and can prevent bloodbaths and can lead to freedom from religion...at the very least freedom of thought.
The fact that someone wants to kill you because you have mocked their belief system is crazy. I hope it is a wake-up call to moderates of all religions to not put power into the hands of the extremists in their group mistaking insanity for piety.
Of course this program of giggles for god of which I approve would work a lot better if the “Christian” west war machine were not currently stealing the oil from Muslims and murdering poor people en mass in order to set up puppet governments.
If I ruled the world – my game plan for the Muslims would be:
I would give Muslims the right to own and profit from their own property
To let them know that women are NOT property
And make every taxi cab in the world drive around with a bobble-head Muhammad whilst listening to John Lennon music.
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Diane, my stance on this shouldn't be confused with supporting Islam as a faith, or the wider abuses done in its name.
There really isn't a gnat's pube width of a difference between Islam and Christianity in their attitude towards women if you look at each faith during the time of their inception. Nor Judaism.
Women in those days were little more than chattels. Look at records of wars throughout time. Warriors were slaughtered, women taken as slaves. That's true of the Bible as it is of History Of The Mongols. The "begats" in the Old Testament conveniently omitted those who actually did the begatting, namely the girls, and our Western Christian names (the Macs, Mcs and O's) refer to our dads, not our mums.
What has made the difference is how each religion has travelled, i.e. progressed. Islam has not travelled. Islam did not ever really move out of the patriarchal tribal systems which embraced it, therefore what you see done in the name of Mohammed is in fact done in the name of backwards tribal tradition from the time before Mohammed. The tribal traditions in the West were more "enlightened", shall we say, and, like a kid leaving small town USA for the Big City, Christianity fared better when separated from the parent religion.
Also, Christianity is (*gasp*) based on the teachings of Jesus. Jesus's message is distinct from every other Messianic figure to have come before or after, and his was (is) the gospel of love. Turn The Other Cheek and Love Thy Neighbour As Thyself were truly revolutionary statements. Even the ninth Commandment only demanded that you not bear false witness against your neighbour, not that you should actually love the bugger.
Jesus's messages were heavy shit and totally outrageous in a warlike society.
However, they were spread abroad not by Jesus but by Paul, and Paul was the prototype of the business agents you see so often today. He was a Jew, and Judaism does not seek new members, merely to induct born members, so Paul packaged Christianity to appeal to what he knew was a receptive niche market in the West, and so you get a totally different slant -this religion of love- one that appealed to women.
In a world which demanded religious belief, women could see the appeal of Christianity and they became staunch champions, many willingly martyred in its name.
History demonstrates that Man's evil and excesses continued to flourish within Christianity, and that they still do. We have only recently come to see women ministers actually ordained within some sections of the Church. It's taken a long time. Gays are still discriminated against, and the Bible itself is used as the excuse for it. "I'd be totally for the gays if God wasn't so against them" seems to be the attitude.
Islam is still a "backward" religion. Its enforced ignorance is ingrained and just as it took 500 or so years for it to take off after Christianity, it may take another 500 years to catch up to where Christianity (with all its faults) is today. Christ is followed by a mostly educated urban Western demographic. Mohammed's followers are mostly peasant agrarian and uneducated. We should keep that in mind.
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I don't think the Danish cartoonists were attempting to make Muslims laugh, Diane - if they were, then they're even more stupid than I thought.
And there are fanatical nutters in all walks of life, beliefs and cultures. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of people are peace-loving humans just trying to cope with life like the next man/woman, otherwise all we cartoonists would have to be looking over our shoulders.
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Tarks, if you ever drew a cartoon that provoked severe reaction from a nutter, you could just show them your avat-aaah blessss.
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Scary, ain't it?
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Scary how nothing's changed but the beard? Yes.
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:D
I think my brow is actually less furrowed these days.
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What a good idea, TT. I want to look young, too. About 5 will do me. :)
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This was me (http://www.skymania.com/briansutherland/Pages/ea_8.htm). Before cameras were invented, I'm afraid. Wasn't I sweet?
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Yes, I was calling you sweet just today.
I made a new Facebook friend today - a Sunni Muslim - they seem a lot happier than the Shite Muslims to me, which make me think one should be very careful when picking out names.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm glad my surname's 'Sun'!
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Yes, I was calling you sweet just today.
You don't still frequent that www.guys-i-adore.com website do you?
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There's two i's in Shiite, Diane, but it's a common mistake. Pretty good reason for changing the name of your religion, I reckon.
*sings*
Sunnis, Moonies, Quakers, Shakers, let's call the whole thing off.