Author Topic: Free Andy Capp - NOW!  (Read 2110 times)

Offline The Peepmaster

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Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« on: November 03, 2008, 09:09:39 AM »
Comics.com has had a major revamp and is now FREE!
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Malc

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 01:34:04 PM »
Great. If I want to give my work away for nothing, I'll be sure to get in touch with them.

This Beau Peep forum is a lovely site, and there's a lot of light hearted self deprecation and ribbing going on, so I feel bad throwing this serious point in - Comics are being offered too much for free on the internet. They make money for the people running the site (because the owners get the ad revenue) but the actual contributors get diddly squat.

Not only that, the general public grow to regard comics as free items. This isn't a good thing.

Some people will say that the exposure you get on a site like Comics.com is invaluable.

That's bull.


Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 02:21:09 PM »
How are they able to use the cartoons if there's no remuneration for the artists? I can't believe they're just stealing them. I'd assumed there was some collaboration for the site to be as professional as it is.
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Diane CBPFC

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 04:24:08 PM »
Most people don't buy cartoons - they buy daily newspapers. Many people don't even read the cartoons - should the cartoonists then give the non-readers a refund?

I think it is good to show the work on Comics. If people really like what they see they will buy the cartoon annuals (IF THEY ARE AVAILABLE - HINT HINT). My son loves Calven & Hobbs and has all the paperbacks but last Christmas I got him the three hardcovers in a slip box set too as that is something he will treasure forever. People are happy to buy the cartoons they have an emotional attachment to even in more than one format.




People will come from strange lands to hear me speak my words of wisdom. They will ask me the secret of life and I will tell them. Then maybe I'll finish off with a song. The Nomad

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 05:14:51 PM »
Diane, you make a good point, and Peepsie's question is the crux of it all for me.

people don't buy newspaper cartoons, but the newspapers do, whether that is through a syndication set-up or as original commissioned work for the papers in question. Money is earned by the artists. I don't see how Comics.com can be publishing so many top quality strips without remuneration of some kind to the artists. I would certainly not place my work with them purely for exposure, and I don't believe anyone else would do that.

I assumed part of the subscription (and I was a subscriber) went towards artist royalties, and now I assume that comes from the advertising revenue. I've no idea how it works, but if I thought this work was available without financial reward to the creators, I'd be fuming...but not at comics.com so much as the creators themselves for enabling that to happen.

If, however, the artists are being paid through the site, then there is little to complain about. I understand your frustration, Malcolm, but as one cartoonist who has never worked for any form of royalty income in my entire career, I've always been happy with a one-off fee for anything I've produced (I do charge extra for certain usages and assigning copyrights), I've never had to worry about repeat fees of any description for work I've done in the past. That's not to say I wouldn't be happy with receiving it, of course.

I've often had to 'correct' potential client's assumption that because we do something that most people regard as 'doodling', and not real work, that payment can reflect that. And I've had more than a few apologies (and eventually very happy customers) out of doing so. Then there have been the slightly rarer clients admittedly, who fully recognise the worth of time-served and talented artisans, and will not only pay accordingly and willingly, but even occasionally tell you that they would have paid more (this has happened to me twice this year, and one of them actually did pay more).

I do have a framework of fee rates which I usually apply to each commission, but the beauty of being self-employed is that I can charge what I like to whoever I like...or dislike as the case may be...and often do.
I apologise, in advance.

Jack

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 08:18:13 PM »
Just a quick note to let you all know... if any of you want to pay me a significant sum of money, I'd be more than happy to do a quick drawing for you.


Quality not guaranteed. All items are non-refundable and must be paid for in advance.

peter

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 08:50:01 PM »
just send me the picture Mince will pay.

Malc

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 08:19:12 AM »
Tarks, the pros generally have their own systems and their own repeat clients, so they long ago carved out their reputations. Their reputations go before them, in that sense.

I don't make a great deal of money from gag cartooning, the income I make from drawing is in the illustration area - corporate stuff and childrens books, etc.
Those clients pay well because (a) they are in the know and realise what stuff costs and ( b) I tell them right up front what the score is.

What I'm talking about is strip cartooning generally, which in the US is completely owned by three major syndicates. The business practices of these syndicates have driven down wages over the last 30-40 years. They are not fit custodians of cartooning as a profession or art form, yet they find themselves in that position, often invited by the NCS to cartoonist awards nights and even providing a bar tab.

I don't know how much cartoonists glean from having their stuff featured on Comics.com, but I'll bet my house they get peanuts. Comics.com is supposed to be a loss leader, a shop window, but I don't believe it works at all. People merely browse and never come in to buy.


Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 08:31:03 AM »
It does give you access to a large diversity of cartoon strips that many might never see, or even be aware of otherwise. I'm sure it must be a consensual arrangement with the artists/agents.
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Roger Kettle

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 09:47:38 AM »
Well, I've certainly never received any payment from comics.com and, to be honest, have never expected any. These days, it's virtually impossible to keep anything OFF the net. You can, after all, read Andy Capp via the online version of The Daily Mirror, The Washington Post or, presumably, most of the papers it appears in. Whether the agencies and/or the newspapers get some sort of payment, I really don't know.

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 09:55:49 AM »
Roger - I was on a remote island in the Philippines, and I still couldn't escape it!
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Tarquin Thunderthighs lll

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Re: Free Andy Capp - NOW!
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 10:23:06 AM »
Well, I've certainly never received any payment from comics.com and, to be honest, have never expected any. These days, it's virtually impossible to keep anything OFF the net. You can, after all, read Andy Capp via the online version of The Daily Mirror, The Washington Post or, presumably, most of the papers it appears in. Whether the agencies and/or the newspapers get some sort of payment, I really don't know.

I don't know what arrangements you have with the Mirror over rights to Andy Capp, Roger, but if neither you nor they are getting a bean from comics.com's use of the strip then I have to say that is outrageous (unless, of course, whoever owns the rights to the strip has consented to its free use - in which case, I'm still outraged, but not at comics.com). I do agree with Malc to the extent that quality cartoon work should not be completely free (i.e. the creator should be paid at some point), and I'd find it astonishing if it turned out that most or all of the contributors to comics.com have freely agreed to let their strips earn the website money for no financial reward to themselves.

Like Malc, I detest this attitude that these kind of sites are somehow doing cartoonists a favour by showcasing their work. That's bull - they're doing themselves the favour by using other people's creative skills, and they should damn well be paying for that. The shop window/exposure argument annoys me intensely - as has so often been pointed out by cartoonists, you can die from exposure.
I apologise, in advance.