Home Schooling

[Mince]

Kitchens are not play areas at all. You need to teach your children this.

Do you seriously, seriously believe any parent would let his or her children play or learn in places that are not safe? The quote from Psychology Today states quite clearly that parents should provide a safe environment in which children can learn by themselves.

Believe it. And I am far from alone in that.

Are you saying that school left you so clueless that you still would prefer to play football and watch cartoons than study? How is that an endorsement of school?

Because I had no idea what technical drawing even was until my first week at secondary school. Someone had to show me.

Are you saying that by secondary school your schooling had stripped of the initiative and desire to find out what kind of things you could learn?

I have no idea what your sarcasm is referring to here. Teach me what it means.

Can you not see an overarching theme in your anecdotes and observations of school that suggests the whole experience might have retarded your progress? Can you not see that to pick up merely a 'little knowledge' of mathematics, geography, history and the sciences, a huge portion of what the school is trying to teach you, is hardly an endorsement for attending school?

You may tell parents till you're blue in the face to just "stand back and let it happen", but I know...and you know...that isn't how it will work.

What I know is that countless families who have radically unschooled have raised well-adjusted children who have frequently gone on to achieve much more than most of those who attend school.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

Do you seriously, seriously believe...?

Are you saying that...?

Are you saying...?

Can you not see...?

Four stupid extrapolations in a row is quite possibly a new record, even for you, Mincey.

What I know is that countless families who have radically unschooled have raised well-adjusted children who have frequently gone on to achieve much more than most of those who attend school.

Yes, but there all rubbish at football.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE KIDS!!!

[Diane CBPFC]

Home Schooling can work - so can public schooling - so can private schooling - so can charter schools - so can tutoring - so can boarding schools - so can unschooling. That is why people pick what works for them if they are fortunate enough to be able to financially and geographically have any choice (most people don't have a choice) - everyone thinks what they are doing is best for their kids.

Live and let live.



 

[Mince]

Four stupid extrapolations in a row is quite possibly a new record, even for you, Mincey.

It just seemed more polite than Nice anecdote. What's your point?

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE KIDS!!!

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PARENTS!!!

[Mince]

everyone thinks what they are doing is best for their kids.

Tarks might have something to say on that.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

everyone thinks what they are doing is best for their kids.

Tarks might have something to say on that.

No, if anyone is doing it for anything other than that reason, then they should not be doing it. Trouble is, there are some who may think that, but whose motivations are different, and it's those cases that would be the biggest concern.

[Mince]

No, if anyone is doing it for anything other than that reason, then they should not be doing it.

And anyone who is doing so for the kids is going to provide a better education for the child than any school.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

Four stupid extrapolations in a row is quite possibly a new record, even for you, Mincey.

It just seemed more polite than Nice anecdote. What's your point?

You wouldn't understand. Well, you've shown no sign of doing so this far, anyway.

My points were... children need adults to guide them, both in terms of their own safety and education (all forms). And if you let a child (in this case, me) do what it wants, whenever it wants, it will chose fun over education and learning every time. And that I'd never have chosen to do technical drawing because it sounds boring, and not as much fun as playing football or watching telly. I also picked up more than a "little knowledge" of the subjects I went on to study at O-Grade (Scottish O-level) exam level, and a lot more at those I took to Higher (A-level) standard. I passed all eight of the former (all 'A's) and all five of the latter - enough qualifications to get a place in most universities in the UK at the time. Instead, I took a job as a sub-editor on The Beano comic, and six years later began my cartooning career now in its 36th year. Had I been home-schooled by my eminently-qualified parents, I'm absolutely certain I would not have been allowed to make the same choices, and I'd have been a very different character by the end of it. Perhaps you might have seen the prospect of me being a doctor or a lawyer as a more desirable career, but through my own choices (yes, I got to make them...even at school!), I've not only had a successful career in cartooning, but a whole lot more fun that I'd have had as either a doctor or a lawyer (other occupations were available). I'm not for one second decrying either (or any other) occupation, but I know I would never have been cut out for them.

It would be easy to dismiss the schooling I had as irrelevant to my life beyond it. I needed only Higher English to get my comic job, and that was only a technicality (I'd already got the job based on my application letter). I didn't need my Higher Art to be able to draw cartoons. But I don't regret anything I learned at school, and in particular those out of class social aspects that I outlined earlier, and which led me to the meeting I had this morning at my old secondary school (first time in over 40 years), in order to discuss our forthcoming reunion. If the school 'retarded my progress', I can only thank them for it.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE KIDS!!!

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PARENTS!!!
[/quote]

Yes, in this debate, I think it is.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

No, if anyone is doing it for anything other than that reason, then they should not be doing it.

And anyone who is doing so for the kids is going to provide a better education for the child than any school.

Horlicks! (see above)

[Mince]

If the school 'retarded my progress', I can only thank them for it.

For the record, I believe school retarded my progress, and that is not something for which I will ever be thankful. I wish I had been taught to think for myself much much earlier. As impressive as your grades are, statistics show that the unschooled and home schooled attain similar grades much earlier.

Yes, in this debate, I think it is.

No, in this debate, I do not, unless you're on about the already mutually agreed need to prevent actual child abuse, and for that I believe we already have the police.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

If the school 'retarded my progress', I can only thank them for it.

For the record, I believe school retarded my progress, and that is not something for which I will ever be thankful. I wish I had been taught to think for myself much much earlier. As impressive as your grades are, statistics show that the unschooled and home schooled attain similar grades much earlier.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but although school does negatively affect some people more than others, it also does produce very high achievers, and is held in fond regard by many (as I'm currently finding out - the lows as well as the highs). But my reservations about home-schooling are not about the standards achieved by the children in education, as we've discussed many times. However, this particular debate necessarily focuses on the parents, as it is their ability to take on their children's schooling that would be the only reason for any kind of inspection. And whilst I'm happy to accept that most will do a perfectly fine job of it, there's no way you can convince me that all will - just as in schools there are good and bad teachers. And my fear is the advantages a home-schooled child will gain from one-on-one teaching by a good home-schooler, will conversely be pretty catastrophic for the children of the bad or incompetent home-schooler. Hence, I think, the desirability of inspections and help from the professionals.

Yes, in this debate, I think it is.

No, in this debate, I do not, unless you're on about the already mutually agreed need to prevent actual child abuse, and for that I believe we already have the police.

Soooooooooooooo...are you saying that..............we should all be having regular home inspections by the police? [watches as Mince turns purple]

No, I'm not just talking about them (see above). 

[Mince]

And my fear is the advantages a home-schooled child will gain from one-on-one teaching by a good home-schooler, will conversely be pretty catastrophic for the children of the bad or incompetent home-schooler. Hence, I think, the desirability of inspections and help from the professionals.

Something needs to be done. This is something. Therefore we shall do this.

The only incompetent parents are the ones who force a curriculum on their child, either by teaching them at home or by sending the child to school, and even they do not require or deserve inspectors.

The courts do have the ability to send to school anyone they believe is not getting an education suitable for the child's age, and quite rightly in my opinion: after all, even incompetent schools are better than no education at all because of an unsuitable learning environment. How the courts define the meaning of the phrase 'suitable for the child's age' is perhaps a cause for concern, but I would be happier with there being a court process than merely an inspector with his own biased definition of the phrase.

Soooooooooooooo...are you saying that..............we should all be having regular home inspections by the police? [watches as Mince turns purple]

As I said earlier, in response to your point about children being abused, I am all for regular inspections of children by NHS doctors at a surgery or hospital, but certainly not by some overworked and underpaid inspector.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

Something needs to be done. This is something. Therefore we shall do this.

Gimme a break! It's only "something" because you don't like it. I've not spent the last five pages debating the value of just doing 'something'. Forget the sloganeering, and stop being such a condescending arse.

The only incompetent parents are the ones who force a curriculum on their child, either by teaching them at home or by sending the child to school, and even they do not require or deserve inspectors.

I disagree - on every count. I have no problem with curriculums, unless they are particularly ill-conceived. Incompetence is more about not knowing what you're doing than knowingly doing something wrong. But either way, where the welfare of children is concerned, both personal and educational, I see nothing wrong with help from professionals, and that includes inspections where they might assist.

...I would be happier with there being a court process than merely an inspector with his own biased definition of the phrase.

Why would it be his (or her) "own biased definition"? This is your own biased definition of what would surely be a carefully regulated and standardised process, carried out by trained professionals.

Soooooooooooooo...are you saying that..............we should all be having regular home inspections by the police? [watches as Mince turns purple]

As I said earlier, in response to your point about children being abused, I am all for regular inspections of children by NHS doctors at a surgery or hospital, but certainly not by some overworked and underpaid inspector.

More emotive supposition. What makes you automatically assume they'd be either over-worked or underpaid. Perhaps if you were a little less eager to brand all of these people you see as determined to interfere in your business in such negative terms, you may come to realise that some are good at their job, and furthermore, welcomed by those they assist.

[Mince]

you may come to realise that some are good at their job

So you want these inspectors to look for abuse and for signs of a lack of education. And only some are good at their job? Nothing like pot-luck incompetence when someone is there to 'assess' your child.

[Tarquin Thunderthighs lll]

Maybe you’d be lucky and get a good one. Then you can put words in his (or her) mouth.

Enough already.