Author Topic: Secret Handshake.  (Read 18359 times)

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2008, 01:27:45 PM »
Tarquin having to make an appointment would be part of the foreplay, I take it?

That should be "Tarquin's having ...", otherwise it's a fused participle. See Fowler's Modern English Usage.

I think it would look wrong: "Tarquin is having to make an appointment would be part of the....."

Are you sure that foul Fowler is correct, Mince?


No, it actually is short for "Tarquin, his having to make an appointment". I hate to agree with Mince.  ::)
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2008, 01:28:39 PM »
No, the "Tarquin's" is not short for "Tarquin is". It's the possessive.

Tarquin having to make an appointment would be part of the foreplay, I take it?

If you change the Tarquin to a pronoun, it becomes:

His having to make an appointment would be part of the foreplay, I take it?

And so "Tarquin" should be the possessive "Tarquin's".

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2008, 01:29:51 PM »
My explanation was shorter, you twerp.
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Vulture

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2008, 01:32:37 PM »
No, the "Tarquin's" is not short for "Tarquin is". It's the possessive.

Tarquin having to make an appointment would be part of the foreplay, I take it?

If you change the Tarquin to a pronoun, it becomes:

His having to make an appointment would be part of the foreplay, I take it?

And so "Tarquin" should be the possessive "Tarquin's".

Do you mean that 'having' belongs to Tarquin?

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2008, 01:33:14 PM »
No, it actually is short for "Tarquin, his having to make an appointment". I hate to agree with Mince.  ::)

I have not seen that structure before. You seem to have placed the gerund in apposition to Tarquin, which to me seems wrong. So as much as you agree with me, I have to disagree with you.

How would you rewrite (in your structure) this one?

I hate Peepmaster's thinking he knows the right answer.

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2008, 01:35:50 PM »
Do you mean that 'having' belongs to Tarquin?

Yes.

Eating chocolate is fun.  The subject is "eating chocolate".

John's eating chocolate is fun. The subject is "John's eating chocolate".

John eating chocolate is fun. The subject is neither "John" nor "eating chocolate", and so it's wrong, a fused participle.

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2008, 01:37:54 PM »
The possessive "Tarquin's" is short for "Tarquin, his".

It's like "Tarquin's underpants" is short for "Tarquin, his underpants".

In the same way, "Fanny's satsuma" is short for "Fanny, her satsuma", but you still have an "s".
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2008, 01:40:00 PM »
Do you mean that 'having' belongs to Tarquin?

Yes.

Eating chocolate is fun.  The subject is "eating chocolate".

John's eating chocolate is fun. The subject is "John's eating chocolate".

John eating chocolate is fun. The subject is neither "John" nor "eating chocolate", and so it's wrong, a fused participle.

That's not right! How come John's got all the chocolate?
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2008, 01:40:19 PM »
It does not always work, especially when the person is female.

I hate her talking loudly in the library.

Here the "her" could be a noun (like "him") or a possessive (like "his"), so it's impossible to tell if it's wrong.

But if you use the name, it would be:

I hate Jane's talking loudly in the library.

But a more natural way of saying that is:

I hate the fact that Jane talks loudly in the library.

Colin

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2008, 01:40:29 PM »
When did this turn into a "back to school" forum?
This is getting rad, redik.
This is getting out of order.

Offline The Peepmaster

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2008, 01:43:30 PM »
It does not always work, especially when the person is female.

I hate her talking loudly in the library.

Here the "her" could be a noun (like "him") or a possessive (like "his"), so it's impossible to tell if it's wrong.

But if you use the name, it would be:

I hate Jane's talking loudly in the library.

But a more natural way of saying that is:

I hate the fact that Jane talks loudly in the library.

I'd bloody talk loudly in the library if John had all the chocolate!  >:(
Nostalgia is not what it used to be. 😟

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2008, 01:43:54 PM »
The possessive "Tarquin's" is short for "Tarquin, his".

It's like "Tarquin's underpants" is short for "Tarquin, his underpants".

In the same way, "Fanny's satsuma" is short for "Fanny, her satsuma", but you still have an "s".

Yes, I remember reading that somewhere. You are talking about the origin of the possessive. I shall have to look that one up to ensure it's not a myth.

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2008, 01:46:48 PM »
John's hiding the chocolate demonstrates his selfishness.

We could write a whole story this way.

Colin

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2008, 01:50:27 PM »
John's hiding the chocolate demonstrates his selfishness.

We could write a whole story this way.

Please don't.

Offline Mince

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Re: Secret Handshake.
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2008, 01:51:42 PM »
Colin's trembling at the prospect made the whole thing more appealing.