Beau Peep Notice Board
Beau Peep Notice Board => Outpourings => Topic started by: Mince on March 27, 2016, 06:54:12 PM
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Spend 55 minutes of your life watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ
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And the rest of your life worrying about everything you eat. I'll pass, ta.
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Spend 55 minutes of your life watching this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ
I've been avoiding the "when will you drop dead and why" debate, I myself have "climbed the mountain" and asked to ultimate question, and whilst I have yet to fully understand the response ["Wear more appropriate footwear"] I at least know I will be sartorially prepared when the time comes.
My comment is this, don't watch the video, just read the conclusion, in thirteen words they manage to cover their asses twice, "Our results suggest..."[/b] and "...meat consumption may..."
In other words, they have the same clue as the rest of us...none. Live it how you want to, the only thing guaranteed it is that it will end.
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Smoking may, heroine may, picking a fight with a gorilla may, drink driving may. All of life is a may, but usually it's useful to determine the extent of that may, the chances of it happening, and the facts and statistics that back it up.
Not bothering to take the time to educate yourself may lead to an early death.
These are just lazy rationalisations that allow you pat yourself on the back for 'cleverly' dismissing thousands of scientists and doctors who have spent their lives conducting hundreds of thousands of highly repeatable studies on millions of people over decades to come to the same conclusion.
At least be honest and just say "I'm probably going to increase my chances of the leading causes of death, but it's worth it to eat meat and fish and egg and dairy."
In other words, they have the same clue as the rest of us...none.
Then why do you bother seeing a doctor for anything? Everything he knows about every medicine he gives you is discovered the same way.
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I'm probably going to increase my chances of the leading causes of death, but it's worth it to eat meat
and fish and egg and dairy.
Don't like fish.
And I've given up enough in my life. Enjoy yours...and give it a rest. Please.
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These are just lazy rationalisations that allow you pat yourself on the back for 'cleverly' dismissing thousands of scientists and doctors who have spent their lives conducting hundreds of thousands of highly repeatable studies on millions of people over decades to come to the same conclusion.
Yes the same conclusion, which is usually so ambiguous as to render it futile. And it's not lazy rationalisation either, that's a phrase a politician might use when doing blah, blah, and does nothing to support your opinions, generalisations rarely do.
At least be honest and just say "I'm probably going to increase my chances of the leading causes of death, but it's worth it to eat meat and fish and egg and dairy."
Last time I checked I wasn't required to make any personal statements regarding death and the inability to avoid it, it might be more honest as you indicate but that would also require me to give a rats behind about it in the first place. True honesty, in my own case, is that simple, I really, really, really don't care. I don't care what other people do either, I wish them luck and let them get on with it.
Then why do you bother seeing a doctor for anything? Everything he knows about every medicine he gives you is discovered the same way.
I trust doctors less than I trust plumbers, and I don't trust plumbers at all. A doctor is good for a) a week off occasionally b) stronger pain medication than I can buy over the counter. Other than that it's flowchart time, is the patient this, is the patient that, yes/no, then it could be a,b,c or d.
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Last time I checked I wasn't required to make any personal statements regarding death and the inability to avoid it, it might be more honest as you indicate but that would also require me to give a rats behind about it in the first place. True honesty, in my own case, is that simple, I really, really, really don't care. I don't care what other people do either, I wish them luck and let them get on with it.
Wot Red sed. Bravo! Ear, ear.
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I also agree with Red.
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Great! Can we talk about football now?
No, wait... :-[
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Yes, how come the football clubs rip off their supporters every year to the sum of thousands and supporters still put up with it? Football fans have a love of the game, and I don't use that word lightly: this love produces a feeling of togetherness, bonding and belonging, something that is with you from birth, often also with your sons from birth. It's tantamount to abuse for devious and greedy football clubs to use this love and bond against their own fans.
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Is this a trap? ???
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And is the trap baited with cheese?
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Last time I checked I wasn't required to make any personal statements regarding death and the inability to avoid it, it might be more honest as you indicate but that would also require me to give a rats behind about it in the first place. True honesty, in my own case, is that simple, I really, really, really don't care. I don't care what other people do either, I wish them luck and let them get on with it.
Wot Red sed. Bravo! Ear, ear.
Oh, and me, too. Wholeheartedly.
Mince, I've known people who smoked 40 Capstan Full Strength a day, had fried bacon and eggs for breakfast 7 days a week and lived to 96. I've also known super-fit, vegetarian athletes die at 32. There ARE no guarantees. Actually, there is ONE guarantee. Any day now, a new book/theory/scientific study will appear that totally refutes what you've just read.
Eat what you like. Exercise from time to time and try to avoid being overweight. Enjoy this brief life as much as you can. That's it.
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Now that's not fair. I was finished with this and then you had to say all that.
Mince, I've known people who smoked 40 Capstan Full Strength a day, had fried bacon and eggs for breakfast 7 days a week and lived to 96. I've also known super-fit, vegetarian athletes die at 32. There ARE no guarantees.
What you say is about as ludicrous as saying, "I've known people advance towards machine guns and live and I've known people put on socks in the morning and kill themselves. I thus conclude that there are no guarantees and that advancing on a machine gun is no worse than putting your socks on." These are called 'outliers', freaks, million-to-one chances. Your smoker is an outlier, and the other 99.99% of smokers died well before that age, and the vegetarian athlete is also an outlier, and the other 99.99% lived longer and healthier lives. The book cannot guarantee anything; but it can show you what's most likely and what's most unlikely.
Seriously, live your life at whatever risk level is acceptable to you to enjoy your life. No one would get out of bed if they did not do this. But if you really believe what you just said above, you're deluded about the risks involved. And even that's okay. But don't expect remarks like yours above to escape being taken apart and ridiculed.
Actually, there is ONE guarantee. Any day now, a new book/theory/scientific study will appear that totally refutes what you've just read.
Well, these theories came out over the last five decades, some almost a century ago. So far, year on year, more and more studies have added to the body of evidence of previous years and decades. And yet despite this, and without reading any of it, you conclude that any day now a new study will be conducted so rigorous and of such scale as to refute decades of previous repeatable studies. I have heard that very soon smoking is going to be proved to be the ultimate cure of all illnesses by a study that 'totally refutes' the last decade of studies showing otherwise. Oh, and I hear gravity is going to be disproved next year, and we're all going to float.
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Is this a trap? ???
I actually believe what I wrote above, despite personally thinking supporting a football team is a waste of my time. But those who enjoy watching football live, sometimes as a family, and who feel this excitement and bonding and love are being abused by the ridiculous prices. I just thought I'd argue something that perhaps was closer to members of this board and learn something into the bargain, especially given that I have never understood this love for what is basically a bunch of random footballers the club could afford to pay for.
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You've just declared that me saying there are no guarantees in life is ludicrous! Wow. I didn't RECOMMEND smoking forty fags a day or, even for a second, suggest that this would prolong your life. Nor did I suggest that being a healthy vegetarian would SHORTEN your life. I simply used these examples to show that people still die whatever lifestyle they choose. In short, there are no guarantees. I ended by saying eat what you like, but exercise and try not to put on weight. For me, that's rather sensible. I believe that, until recently, you enjoyed the likes of pizza and ice cream and, after reading a book, you have decided not to eat either of them. That's absolutely fine by me. Given the constantly changing opinions about the benefits of various foodstuffs, I find it strange that you are confident your current reading material is definitive. Again, that's fine by me.
However, I have to say that I found your final, sarcastic comments about my opinions rather offensive. I'm sure you didn't mean them that way.
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Because it seems that the topics rarely seem to survive the actual subject header, particularly it seems in my humble efforts, here is a revenge topic steal, brutal I know but sometimes a man has to be a man, unless he'd rather be a unicorn. I just got back from a superb rendition of Princess Ida, a comic opera by Gilbert & Sullivan. The main tenor was a bit sub par but this was more than made up for by a superb baritone and some excellent soprano & contralto. Princess Ida was not as successful as a number of the other operetta penned by these two gentlemen, but the quality and sound of a Gilbert & Sullivan chorus at full tilt...priceless.
[Feel free to assail one of my (rather superb) posts in retaliation].
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You've just declared that me saying there are no guarantees in life is ludicrous! Wow. I didn't RECOMMEND smoking forty fags a day or, even for a second, suggest that this would prolong your life. Nor did I suggest that being a healthy vegetarian would SHORTEN your life. I simply used these examples to show that people still die whatever lifestyle they choose. In short, there are no guarantees. I ended by saying eat what you like, but exercise and try not to put on weight. For me, that's rather sensible.
The fact that everyone dies despite their lifestyle seems so obvious as to be hardly worth mentioning. But I apologise if that was the sum total of the point you were making, and you were not trying to imply that therefore one lifestyle has the same risks as any other. Yes, not being overweight and exercise are beneficial. But a plant-based diet is also beneficial, perhaps more so.
Given the constantly changing opinions about the benefits of various foodstuffs, I find it strange that you are confident your current reading material is definitive. Again, that's fine by me.
Yes, often a single study on, say, red wine can contradict other studies on red wine. Studies do this. Again, it's to do with outliers. For example, I would not be surprised if one study found fish to be more unhealthy than chicken, and another found the opposite. Again, these are single studies affected by random chance.
But that's not what you said. You stated that one day the whole body of evidence in that book - actually let's forget the book - the whole body of evidence accepted by people such as the head of nutrition at Harvard’s School of Public Health, is one day going to be disproved. Ask the head of nutrition at Harvard's School of Public Health if s/he thinks this is going to happen, given the sheer number of studies that provide overwhelming evidence. I guess you're not confident because you don't understand some part of statistics, repeatability, or meta-analysis, but that doesn't mean you're right. So again, I apologise, but you're still wrong.
However, I have to say that I found your final, sarcastic comments about my opinions rather offensive. I'm sure you didn't mean them that way.
No, I didn't. I apologise if I came across that way. I have to keep in mind that other people don't always understand how scientific statistical studies progress. But I would prefer my analogies to be potentially offensive if they at least make people realise how wrong they are.
There are oncologists who before scoffed at a plant-based diet's ability to prevent and reverse cancer who now, given the extent of the evidence, encourage such a diet. The United States Department of Agriculture have told the American Egg Board that they can advertise eggs as fresh but cannot advertise eggs as safe, or safe to eat, or healthful: "references to healthfulness must be deleted". Read the book. It's not about one man's opinion, nor a few studies that contradict each other, but about a body of evidence gathered over decades that all point to one obvious conclusion, a conclusion that is not going to change any more than gravity is going to change.
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actually let's forget the book
Good idea.
Is this a trap? ???
I actually believe what I wrote above, despite personally thinking supporting a football team is a waste of my time. But those who enjoy watching football live, sometimes as a family, and who feel this excitement and bonding and love are being abused by the ridiculous prices. I just thought I'd argue something that perhaps was closer to members of this board and learn something into the bargain, especially given that I have never understood this love for what is basically a bunch of random footballers the club could afford to pay for.
Ah, so it was a trap.
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Ohh, this is getting a bit serious, I love differences of opinion -- but we can't all be right, can we?
So here's my two pennies worth:
I hate people who who start a sentence with ‘so’ (oops!), I love red wine, beer, and rum and coke. I love garlic. I love the sun (not the paper). I love my family. I love my mates. I love Beau Peep and Horace . I love comedy (the two are not unconnected ;) ). I hate the Tories. I love smoking roll-ups. I hate my work. I hate cheese. I hate cats. I hate most of the stuff on telly at the moment. I love black and white films. I love Dad’s Army. I love Eric Sykes. I love Jeff Lynne and ELO, the music of the 20’s and 30’s (especially Al Bowlly, Billy Cotton, Lew Stone, Leslie Sarony, and Elsie Carlisle), Pink Floyd, Neil Innes, Mr Bowie, John Shuttleworth, Led Zeppelin, and many more. I hate Phil Collins, and most modern music. I love butter. I love meat (except lamb).
This is very black and white and simplistic (‘love’ and ‘hate’ is a bit strong) but you get my drift..
I just got back from a very enjoyable night out, so I'm rambling a bit and maybe lost my thread what I was going to say (the music references has nothing to do with it, but it's what I'm listing to now) but the gist is I had a very nasty health scare a couple of years ago, but I got through it (thanks to the wonderful staff of the NHS).
It made me realise that I'm not getting any younger so I should start enjoying life a bit more. What’s the point of saving everything for that ‘rainy day’? I don’t ‘exercise’ though I walk to and from work every day. I eat and drink what I enjoy –- but in moderation, which I think is the key.
My point is (and it’s not directed at anyone), why be the richest/healthiest man in the graveyard? What’s the point of living like a hermit just to add a few more years on your life just to end up sitting and dribbling in a wee-soaked chair in an old folks home? As long as you don't burden anyone else, I say enjoy what you enjoy today.
You've only got one life...
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Rob, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say. Choose what you enjoy and enjoy it, even if you wish to do so without knowing the risks. (Mind you, I would be interested to see how many of those dribbling and weeing themselves in old people's homes are not on a plant-based diet.)
My "difference of opinion" was over things said, either knowingly or not, that were not true.
1. A single study through random chance can be wrong or can contradict another single study. Just look at the autism scare with MMR jabs based on one study, despite tens of millions of children around the world receiving the vaccine and despite numerous high-quality research studies that support the safety of MMR. But several repeatable studies all coming to the same conclusion in the absence of repeatable studies demonstrating the opposite cannot be thereafter 'disproven'.
2. The fact that there are outliers (96-year-old smokers) proves nothing. George Burns smoked until he was 100, but hundreds of thousands of others every year do not: they die in their forties and fifties.
3. The fact that you could get run over by a bus is true for everyone - smokers, heroin abusers, extreme sports enthusiasts - and therefore proves nothing.
If you wish to privately believe 1., 2., and 3. (and other nonsense) to justify dismissing overwhelming evidence of risk, feel free. It's perfectly okay to take the risk so that you can enjoy your life the way you want, even without knowing the extent of that risk.
But if you're going to lazily spout 1., 2. or 3. in public and then get miffed when your monumentally stupid opinions are ridiculed for everyone to see, I suggest you ask me beforehand to take a week off the board.
And one more thing: can no one debate any more without someone taking offence or thinking things are getting a bit serious? I know I can be extremely sarcastic at times in making my point ('gravity'), but are you lot just not up to arguing through ideas with a dash of ad hominem ('monumentally stupid') thrown in? Can Roger not, for example, say things like "It's simply ludicrous to state that there are absolutely no positives in the school system." without others taking offence? I enjoy a good scrap, especially with friends, but not if people are going to bow out or take offence when things become too intense.
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I think you are monumentally stupid.
There, I've said my bit. :\
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Your idea of a 'dash' of ad hominemamuses me..... feels/reads like larger quantities of person-centred stuff flying about.
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Drat... italics never go where you want them :-\
ad hominem amuses moi
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Your idea of a 'dash' of ad hominemamuses me..... feels/reads like larger quantities of person-centred stuff flying about.
So what? It's all part of a good debate.
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I think you are monumentally stupid.
There, I've said my bit.
Hardly worth saying. :P
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I think you are monumentally stupid.
There, I've said my bit.
Hardly worth saying. :P
If you want more (the full reasons for the above opinion), you'll have to wait. I'm working.